Posts filed under ‘Mary Rizzo/PP’

I stand aside from the decision

I had blocked the proposal that we ban Atzmon from Indymedia. Support appeared to be growing for a ban without further discussion, and I believed that such a decision needed to be made in a refective and informed manner, not just a knee-jerk response. However, in light of the fact that it was clear that Greenstein appeared to be unwilling to let Indymedia follow its usual process, and was constantly seeking to up the ante for ever increasing demands. I felt that in the absence of space for a reflective discussion, my block could result in the whole project being damaged by Greenstein and his goon like tactics, so I decided to stand aside from the decision, thus dropping my block. It was up to the collective to decide the matter without me. I also decided that I would instead focus on exposing the tactics of the hunters of Atzmon, which were causing such disruption to a project that they said they supported. – I wrote to the list – ftp

[Imc-uk-features] Choice under pressure: Reflection vs Censorship

freethepeeps at aktivix.org freethepeeps at aktivix.org
Fri Nov 9 18:12:42 PST 2007

A few years ago, Gilad Atzmon wrote an article about the demonisation of Israel
Shamir (1). I met Shamir in a village outside Nablus, when he came to
interview a family whose house was under threat of demolition, because their
son, who by all accounts had a learning disability, had attempted a suicide
bomb. He got to his target, because he was employed in building the settler
road that passed the back of the house. I had quite a long chat with Israel,
and I was impressed by his passion for justice. This was before his banishment
from the Palestinian solidarity movement by a group whose behaviour Atzmon
claimed amounted to “modern Jewish secular intolerance.” He described the
process:

The liberal Zionist cell, as we are going to read, cannot really take it. They
demand the cleansing of Shamir. They insist upon ruining his intellectual
career or at the very least, his reputation. They would use any possible
manipulative strategy to have him thrown out of DYR, which is the first step
towards sending him beyond the pale.

He asserted that his readers that the episode was “a glimpse into the
abusive, assertive and violent world of Zionist lobbying.”

I received a private email today. This is the text:

As a hitherto supporter of Indymedia I am writing in total support of Tony
Greenstein’s attribution of anti-Semitism
Some political positions are so clear that they require no reflection to
asceratain their meaning. Nazism is one such position. What you have published
is another. To talk of “Judaic world view” (ie attributing to all Jews the same
view – the conspiracy theory) and refering to the “unpopularity” of Jews in
Nazified Europe (a form of holocaust minimisation which virtually coincides
with denial) as well as “their holocaust”( the holocaust was perpetrated ON
Jews – and others. The perpetrators were the Nazis)…all this is
clear,unarguable anti-Semitism. Just as “kill the Yids” is
clear,unarguable,anti-Semitism. But yet you claim a) it is open to
interpretation b) even if it were anti-Semitic you need a “consensus” as to
what to do if anything – a somewhat unique position on fighting racism c) in
the meantime you feel quite prepared to print this junk (which incidenetally in
identifying anti-Semitism with Palestinian liberation puts you in antagonism to
all progressive Palestinian thought). Of course you can continue to use your
energy going down this obnoxious path. Or else you can print an apology. steve
cohen

It was the first email to arrive after Tony Greenstein’s call to several email
lists to write to us.

The last time that happened to me was when I was on a list for ‘alternative
Christmas Carols’, when a group of us sang carols with words updated to reflect
the current situation in Palestine. Someone got hold of the list and sent it to
a Hasbabrah warrior in the States. She put a call out for people to write to
us, and within a short space of time my inbox was deluged with some of the most
rancid and racist struff I have seen.

The tactics feel exactly the same. The fact that I’ve only had one so far may
suggest that Greenstein et al have a lot less support than their zionist
counterparts.

And now the same group that went for Shamir are gunning for Atzmon. They are
demanding that we kick him out. We’re a minor site(for them), so we’ve had to
wait our turn. They’ve held a picket outside Bookmarks to protest against Gilad
(where apparently he came out and played a socialist anthem on the sax),
lobbied to have him barred from Scottish PSC and the SWP. Attacks and counter
attacks have ranged across the net, taking in the Guardian, Counterpunch and
AMIN along the way. To date they have been unsuccesful. It worries the shit out
of me that Indymedia might just give them their first taste of blood in this
new kill.

AMIN by the way is the Arabic Media Internet Network, and one of the group,
Deborah Maccoby wrote(2) there in January, 2007 that:

No doubt Atzmon will present this article as yet another vicious “defamation”
of him by a “Jewish Gatekeeper”. He will claim I and other practitioners of
“Jewish Power” – ie the Jewish world conspiracy – are trying to silence
him and his allies. But we’re not trying to silence them; we simply want to
reply to their attacks and defend ourselves. Our very efforts to defend
ourselves become, in their twisted and deluded thinking, proof of our sinister
“Jewish Power”. I will end by asking readers of both articles to decide who is
doing the defaming, and I appeal to Palestinians and their supporters to resist
this attempt to divide and undermine the Palestinian solidarity movement from
within.

Well, now a choice is being demanded of us. Now there is no pretension of
debate and self-defence, and according to Steve Cohen’s email, Atzmon’s writings “
require no reflection to asceratain their meaning.” Greenstein is right.

Greenstein is clear however, that if the claim is ever levelled against him,
we should “reflect to ascertain the meaning”, because the anti-semitism term is
often abused in order to defame opponents.

He castigates Atzmon for not backing the boycott. And it wasn’t long ago that
we had Indymedia’s resident zionist, gehrig calling us anti-semitic because we
carried articles supporting the boycott. The boycott according to gehrig is
anti-semitic because it affects Jews disproportionally. Not Israelis mind,
Jews.

If we boycott Zimbabwe, is it discriminatory because it disproportionally
affects the largest ethnic group? Once again Israel is Jewish when it wants to
be, and not when it doesn’t feel like it. Now they are actually debating only
giving citizenship to Jews who support the state. But hey I’ve seen several
activists who happen to be Jewish deported from Israel and barred from
returning, so I’m not that surprised really.Those who oppose the state are not
“proper Jews”. Thats what a group of Betar activists told a pro-Palestinian
activist of Jewish origin outside Marks and Spencer in Manchester a few years
ago. They jumped up and down in a huddle chanting it at him. When the cops got
closer the chant changed to “We want peace!”.

Whilst Greenstein has certainly pulled out all the stops in his last email, I
don’t think that his argument in support of his viewpoint is any more
persuasive than the arguments that gehrig puts up. That gehrig would in fact
put up against Greenstein for supporting a boycott that disproportionally
affects Jews. All of them appear to be highly honed in proving that every point
of view that they do not agree with is racist against them.

Its no wonder that its so difficult to sort it out. When it involves Palestine,
this is what you know to expect. Its impossible to meet all their demands,
they’re contradictory and each protagonist is 100% certain that their way is
the only way. Debate is impossible in such rigidly controlled and threatening
circumstances.

Atzmons reaction to it all appears to rail against it – to fight against the
restrictions, to push the boundaries, to stick his tongue out and go
BLAHBLAHBLAH at the censors, at those who push us into pens and control every
aspect of our deep concern for the nightmarish situation in which the
Palestinains live and die every day. To paraphrase a recent comment on a
Fitwatch demo noted: “The woman in black was gagging to be arrested. Theres
always one at every demo.” And if you watch the video, theres no doubt that the
more the cops tried to control her, the more she rails, challenges and gives it
back. Needless to say the end result was predictable, the controllers won. She
was arrested and dragged off, with the cops getting their little pokes in when
she was forced into the van.

She’ll be back, and so will Gilad. Because they are brimming with anger at the
injustice that so many people live every single day. They care passionately
about justice. They believe it has to stop.

I have sleepless nights over all of this, all the time it gets worse and worse.
Whatever we’ve been doing up until now to support the Palestinians, hasn’t
worked. And theres no way to discuss it, or change strategy, because the halls
are monitored, the guards are on the perimeter all the time, and their guns are
cocked.

If they do to Gilad the exact opposite of what they told the readers of AMIN
they intended to do, who will be next? Who is going to read the texts and
listen to the arguments, and read the articles and check it all out? How much
time is it going to take? How much pain is it going to cause?

The easy way is to do what we’re told without question – to click the button
they demand , to delete the person they want deleted now. Gilad it seems made a
self fulfilling prophecy when he warned how they treated those who had lost
their approval.

I’ve been reading their stuff endlessly for the last few days. Theres mountains
of the stuff to get through. Greenstein’s stuff is turgid and unreadable. Most
of the rest of their stuff is fixated with the issue of anti-semitism. The
stuff that stimulates and makes me think that there are ways out of the rut,
tends to be Gilads stuff, even though it takes constant rereadings to get to
what he trying to say, and the stuff on Mary Rizzo’s blog.

They’ve demanded I make a choice, and I have.

This debate is being monitored on Peace Palestine (3), which Greenstein
describes as Rizzos “anti-semitic list”.

There she says:

This is why it becomes of vital importance for activists first of all to ask
themselves two things: At whose service are we? How effective are we? If we are
turning the light on about the atrocities of Zionism, Colonialism and
Imperialism, we are of service to those who are VICTIMS of these criminal
philosophies and the actions that derive from them. In order to turn on the
light, we have to be able to communicate, to be allowed the liberty to declare
that there is a mindset, a worldview and an ideological position behind all of
these things. This is the analytical element of activism. Things aren’t born
from a vacuum, they have a history, they have some kind of meaning. We have to
be willing to reject the “news” that is often filtered through to us, and we
have to appeal to the Humanist part of our commitment, and this means a certain
kind of approach. If our primary interest (as activists for justice and peace
in Palestine) is anything but justice for the victims of Zionism, we are not of
service to Palestinians. It couldn’t be put any simpler.

Indymedia has a choice to make.

Put up or shut up.

Sadly, I think I know which way its going to go. Its been that kind of year.

I stand aside from the choice. The collective needs to sort it out.
I stand for justice for Palestinians. I stand against bullying.

ftp

(1)http://www.gilad.co.uk/html%20files/Londonelders.html
(2)http://www.amin.org/look/amin/en.tpl?IdLanguage=1&IdPublication=7&NrArticle=38731&NrIssue=1&NrSection=3
(3)http://peacepalestine.blogspot.com/2007/11/gatekeepers-lose-another-one-indymedia.html

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November 13, 2007 at 9:53 am Leave a comment

Gilad on Indymedia list

I didn’t post this to list – it went through the normal channels

http://lists.indymedia.org/pipermail/imc-uk-features/2007-November/1103-qk.html

mary rizzo maryrizzo at hispam.com
Sat Nov 3 06:39:52 PDT 2007

(Dear Ftp, I am sending this for Gilad, since he
hasn’t got a stable internet connection. He asked
if you could kindly publish this on the list
where the discussion is going on.- Mary)

Dear FTP and the rest of you

I would prefer to spare myself from debating Mr
Greenstein, I have done it in the past and do not
see a point in doing it anymore.

However, Yossarian’s reading of my materials is
far more concerning and I would like to address it briefly.

Yossarian refers to a paper of mine (“Protocols
of the Elders of Zion (Verse 2)” which he finds “disturbing”.

I am indeed critical of any form of Jewish
politics (left, right and centre). The reason is
rather simple: I am opposing any form of identity
politics grounded on racial belonging. I oppose
someone who calls himself a Jewish Marxist as
much as I would oppose another who defines
himself an Aryan socialist (Nazi). I will make it
clear that I have no problem whatsoever with a
Marxist who happens to be a Jew. I have no
problem as well with Torah Jews, with those Jews
who interpret the Judaic call as an ethical endeavor.

Yossarian probably fails to realise that in my
writings I differentiate between Judaism
(religion), Jews (the people) and Jewishness
(ideology). I have no problem with Judaism and
Jews, yet I have some major difficulty with
Jewishness, the ideology that is based on some
different forms of racial supremacy
(Chosenness). It may as well be crucial to
remind you all that in my entire body of work
there is not a single reference to Jews as a
racial entity. I am solely concerned with
Jewishnes. I am scrutinising Jewish identity and
Jewish political identity in particular. The
issue of race is simply ‘non existent’ in my writings!!!

Yossarian refers to me saying:

“his arguments that there is a Zionist plan to
dominate the world do seem to me to be disturbing.”

I agree with you Yossarian, it is indeed very
very disturbing, but I believe that your job is
to expose it rather than to silence it. More to
the point, the work of the Israeli lobby in
America is now out in the open thanks to some
major American academics such as James Petras,
John Mearsheimer and Stephen Walt. The book about
the Israeli Lobby was recently circulated in the
NY Times. It is slightly embarrassing that
Yossarian of UK Indy Media is just slightly
behind a major conservative American paper on the topic.

Devastated Yossarian is quoting me saying:

I) “Zionism is a very singular political method
aimed at perfecting the transformation of world
disasters and human pain into Jewish gain,(GA)”

Gilad: Dear Yossarian, why don’t you go and learn
the subject first? You may want to start with
Herzl and the notion of political Zionism. In
case you get lost I can always provide you with
the right texts. You can probably continue with
Lenni Brenner, Zionism in the Age of Dictators.
Though Brenner is far from being a professional
historian, he is a fabulous archivist. You can
learn from him how Zionists capitalised on the Holocaust.

In case you do not want to go that far back I can
provide you all with the AJC (American Jewish
Committee) recent promotion pack for ‘a war against Iran’

Would it be enough to establish a case?

Devastated Yossarian quotes me saying:

II) “Zionist lobbies have managed to
comprehensively dominate the major sources that
control American public opinion: both in culture,
in media and in finance (GA)”

Gilad : I suggest to you, Yossarian, to read the
following
link.
http://www.lrb.co.uk/v28/n06/mear01_.html

I really start to wonder whether you live on the
same planet the rest of us do
.

Yossarian is quoting me saying:

III) “America is about to lose its
sovereignty…After so many years of
Independence, the United States of America is
becoming a remote colony of an apparently far
greater state, the Jewish state.”

Gilad: Indeed, becoming an Israeli mission force
fighting some idiotic neocon wars against Iraq,
Syria and Iran serves Israeli interest
only. Unless you, Yossarian, can suggest otherwise.

Yossarian says:

“I am happy enough for people to analyze the
institutional role of AIPAC and other lobby
groups when it comes to US foreign policy
formation, in fact I think that’s quite a
legitimate thing to do. However, he skips over
that part completely – he doesn’t do much
intellectual heavy lifting, he just takes it as a
given that “Zionists” control the media, US
foreign policy, culture, and finance, and that
they want to take over the world. No evidence is
cited for any of this, it’s just all stated as fact.”

Gilad: why don’t you now tell us Mr Yossarian
where AIPAC stops and where Zionism
starts. Please enlighten me and the rest of the
world about the subject because as far as we can
see, AIPAC is nothing but a manifestation of the
Zionist infrastructure. You just fail to
understand that: AIPAC, ADL, ZIONISM, BUND, JEWS
FOR PEACE AND JEWS AGAINST PEACE, JEWS FOR THAT
AND JEWS AGAINST SOMETHING ELSE are all
different formations of some Judeo centric
racially orientated tribal political identities.
They all serve a similar cause, and this cause
is ‘the Jewish people’. Though they have
different plans for the Jewish people and the
rest of the world, they all separate between Jews
and Humanity. And I think that this is very
wrong!!! I may as well suggest to you, Yossarian
that if you do not think that this is very wrong,
it is actually me who doesn’t want to be on your site!

I suggest to you, Yossarian and others that you
spend some time learning about the subject
because at the moment you just spread some old
liberal clichés that prove some severe lack of
understanding of the entire issue and its complexity.

Referring to the Q whether to remove my piece or
to leave it on. As you probably realize, this
very piece was translated into 7 languages, it
appeared on almost every left magazine around the
world and probably every Palestinian one. It was
circulated to millions of people, If you remove
it due to the pressure of this sad Tony
Greenstein, a man who was recently humiliated at
the PSC AGM for trying to silence others, it will
reflect badly on you rather than me.

Please go ahead.

All the very best
Gilad Atzmon

November 12, 2007 at 2:31 pm Leave a comment

Comments from 1st Peace Palestine post

Comments:

I am in Northampton tonight, apparently I have a weak wifi access at the venue. I will make it very easy for you. Machover doesn’t confront me because Machover is a pathetic coward who has become very very unpopular along the years. As simple as that. Even within the legendary Mazpen, Machover was left alone. Aki Orr, his intellectual / ideological partner told me a year ago that he hasn’t spoken to Machover for 20 years.

Seemingly, Machover’s influence within the left is now down to 2-3 British Jews and another one in Switzerland. Apparently Machover’s followers within the ‘left’ (Greenstein & Rance) were themselves humiliated at the PSC AGM less than a year ago. We are indeed dealing here with a small bunch of very despised human beings. It isn’t that surprising that they stick to each other.

Seemingly, Machover uses Greenstein because Machover is just afraid to confront me alone. Machover remembers that his last assault against me led the SWP leadership to expose him as a compulsive liar, and the evidence is in the link you put in. At the time the SWP forwarded Machover’s email to us, clearly they had very little respect for the decaying Marxist elder. However, to be honest, I feel sorry for the old man. I used to socialise with him and his family a while back. I honestly believe that if the man had just a bit more dignity in his disposal he would probably avoid using a petty criminal Greenstein as his messenger to the world…
Gilad Atzmon | Homepage | 11.02.07 – 10:16 pm | #
_______________________________________________________________________
Since PePa likes complete coverage, here is a copy of the email I’d sent to the person in Indymedia who had invited Gilad to enter into the discussion.

Hi Ftp,
Gilad spoke with me a few hours ago, and as he is at the moment really unable to reply, since was leaving for a leg of the Blockheads tour, and has almost no access to internet, he asked if I’d send you a quick note regarding the debate underway at Indymedia.

He really appreciates you allowing him the opportunity to discuss the issue within the forum, and in fact, that was a very decent thing to do.

Regarding the actual debate, Gilad hadn’t had time to read it, but I summed it up a bit for him, and the matter at hand has been understood very well by yourself. It seems to be an ongoing fight that Tony Greenstein is determined to wage against Gilad Atzmon in a 360° manner. There is rarely an opportunity he misses to attempt to have Gilad taken out of discourse and isolated from anyone who might like to read his content and come to their own conclusions. In fact, it seems that on the board, some are coming to conclusions, and part of that is: yes, there are elements that might offend or be provocative, but there is no hatespeech or even evidence of racial hatred. It is far too easy to take segments out of context of papers and to twist them into something they never were. We are all running on internet time, and if someone can digest it all for us and then do us the favour of passing judgment and deciding if something is acceptable or not, they have saved us precious time. Tony believes he’s doing a public service, but actually, he really only convinces an extreme minority of people, and come to think of it, they were people who felt themselves to be the targets of one of Gilad’s more effective pieces, the Protocols of the Elders of London where…. oh my…. the topic is attempts of a small group of Jewish activists to get people pulled from sites, discussion lists, speaking venues. There is a level of constant vilification of not so much a “viewpoint” but of a person, carried to extremes, and done pretty much “under the table”, but thank goodness, we are still able to see it with our own eyes and document this kind of dealing. Yes, the irony is that the paper is more valid today than it was when it was written, 3 or so years ago.

This is what Tony Greenstein fails to realise, that he is really part of his own problem. When he decides to change his tactic, perhaps Gilad will be able to put the pen down and focus on something else.

At any rate, I’ve written a text about it on my blog, if you’d like to read it, this is the link. http://peacepalestine.blogspot.c…ts-big- and.html

take care
mary (from peacepalestine blog)
thecutter | Homepage | 11.02.07 – 10:21 pm | #
________________________________________________________________
>> Google Results 1 – 10 of about 950 for (0.49 seconds).

This is a purposely misleading way to perform search in Google,
and thus fifty per cent of the result set is not related to the
article under discussion.
Here’s the appropriate way to perform the search, where the accepted
result set is about 518:
http://www.google.com/search?hl=…%22& btnG=Search

I will not continue reading this article because it is very
likely it is full of lies and fabrications.
MHoward775 | 11.02.07 – 11:03 pm | #
_________________________________________________________________
Mary,
Just to put things straight. I got few weeks ago a reaction of Moshe Machover to the said Atzmon article. Moshe claimed there that Atzmon had blamed in this piece THE JEWS for the Nazi crimes. For me it wasn’t that clear and I saw another way to understand the passage. We had a discussion on this issue. At the end I decided that instead of wasting our time Atzmon can be asked to clarify the point. Atzmon wrote a while ago that I shouldn’t send him my “Jewish spam” and this was the reason that I asked you for an explanation.
I would not take your answer as representing Atzmon’s position but your own.
Basically blaming the subjects or victims of racist prejudices for the prejudices and the ensuing persecutions is part of the racist attitude. Those who blame the Muslims or the Islam for the Islamophibia are clearly racists. Accordingly anybody blaming The Jews for the Judeophobia is to be considered as a racist.
Just the same, it is possible to say that at present Zionists and pro-Zionists organizations and lobbies are triggering Judeophobia through their behaviour and crimes. They are not creating the Judeophobic attitudes which blame all Jews for crimes committed by the “Jewish” state and by its supporters (not all of the are Jews). This kind of prejudices or “openness” for prejudices must exist before the trigger/s come/s. This readiness to generalize is the mother or father of racism.
People who accuse all the Germans for ever and ever for the Nazi crimes are racists in my book. This anti-German racism is very common in Israel, among Jews and many non-Jews non-Germans.
Not even all the Nazis bore the same amount of guilt, just as not all Zionists bear the same amount of guilt. There is a clear difference e.g. between Ariel Sharon and Uri Avnery, although both of them are Zionists. Of course everybody paying taxes in Israel has a responsibility for the crimes committed by this state, but this includes also Palestinian citizens of this state like Omar Barghouth and Khaled Amayreh,
People like Atzmon and yourself with you racist prejudices are not endangering Jews but are harming the Palestinian struggle for freedom, i.e. against oppression and racism.
The Zionist experience has demonstrated very well that it is a mistake to support and develop a struggle against one sort of racism that propagates another kind of racism. An anti-racism racism is still racism.
It is not even just a question of morality but a political matter of taking into consideration the very desperate Palestinian situation which does not allow Palestinians the same “luxury” that Zionists have had, namely of developing and nursing an anti-racist racism. An anti-Amalkites racism, which was understandable under persecutions, but just the same condemable. The Palestinian Judeophobia is more dangerous for Palestinians than it is for Jews, as it gives Zionists and their followers needed pretexts to silence the necessary protests against Zionist crimes.
Shraga Elam | 11.02.07 – 11:05 pm | #
_________________________________________________________________________
Shraga, you call me a racist. I hope you are ready to back that up.

Also, I was wondering if you ever did get the letter from several months back where you asked me for the information on Machover’s position on certain issues, since you had asked me for clarification when I informed you that you were not completely up to date on the developments of the various situations. I sent you very long and quite detailed information, to which I also said you were more than welcome to send them to Machover, yet, you did not even bother to reply to the discussion I was having with you about it.

So, you are welcome to believe whatever you like, but you seem to have a very selective way of interacting with people, which is your right, but it is neither fair to them or accurate when you then come out with inflammatory statements that they are racists and responsible for the suffering of the Palestinians.

It might interest you to note that there is more than one way of looking at things and by painting all who critique the negative parts of the Jewish Identity, which we all deal with in one way or another, are anti-Semites or racists is indeed a very incorrect way of establishing any kind of verity. And, you may see that one of the major issues here is again, the gatekeeping one, where one person, speaking as a Jew and representing other Jews, is pushing – lobbying – sometimes in the light of day, and sometimes in a much more obscure manner, to have any voices that hold him up to scrutiny silenced. This is indeed a great and urgent problem. I am certain that neither Atzmon nor I incite any kind of hatred or anti-racist racism (whatever that means) and we are humanists to the core.
thecutter | Homepage | 11.02.07 – 11:16 pm | #
______________________________________________________________________
One more thing, Shraga. If you actually read Atzmon’s articles for yourself, rather than trusting the condensed and commented version, you will see that he does not consider Jews a race. He considers a mental attitude which he defines as Jewishness, and which is represented not only in Zionists, (obviously, for in fact that would be ridiculous) but in any person Jew or Gentile, that tends to assign and accept a separateness of Jewish people that is based on being in some way Chosen. Following this attitude to its most dramatic result, we can see the crimes committed against innocent people simply because they are not chosen. There are millions around the world that accept this paradigm, and it therefore needs to be confronted openly, in order for the suffering of Palestinian people to be addressed and the offences against them allowed to be redressed.
thecutter | Homepage | 11.02.07 – 11:22 pm | #
___________________________________________________________________________
off topic, slightly…

Ziopedia, that at times has articles one would find anywhere, but also has its enormous share of total nutbar stuff, inserted me on their mailing list ages ago. That’s cuz I knew Andrew when he just commented on blogs. Then, hardly knowing the man, but being aware that he was bilingual, asked if he wanted to participate in Tlaxcala. He volunteered to do so, and contributed with some translations. In the meantime, he opened his site, got asked to leave Tlaxcala after one of his more lunatic campaigns, and kept my name on his mailing list. Imagine not a day goes by that I don’t get in my inbox “Send money to keep me going” and so on.

I finally registered, read his bleeding gall post where he begs for money, inflating his readership and so on, and I offered some advice: telling him to cut down on the non-necessary things, to dedicate the time he had, like the rest of us do, to insert features that are free, and if that didn’t keep him happy, to get advertising. Not only did he NOT print my post, he blocked my login! So, gatekeeping is an activity that happens whenever someone feels their dominion threatened in their sphere of influence. Winkler’s not that much different from Greenstein.
thecutter | Homepage | 11.02.07 – 11:42 pm | #
______________________________________________________________________
Shraga I indeed asked you to stop spamming me with your Judeo centric spam and your pathetic “self loving” narrative. You are welcome to communicate with me addressing some essential issues, whether you are capable doing so is indeed a big question. I personally doubt it.

Down to the point:
You say: “Basically blaming the subjects or victims of racist prejudices for the prejudices and the ensuing persecutions is part of the racist attitude.”

My answer:
I didn’t blame nor did I Justify. Instead, I argue that the general unpopularity of Jews in Europe and the repetition of similar conditions in occupied Palestine isn’t really a coincidence. I do understand that you, Greenstein, Rance and Machover insist upon regarding yourselves as loveable Jews. But as it seems nobody but yourself can stand you. The SWP humiliated Machover, the PSC did the same the Greenstein and Rance, every German Pls solidarity that I happen to meet voluntarily report me how revolting Mr Elam is. Your total isolation and the fact that you all operate solely within Jewish cyber cells speak for itself.

In case you fail to know, Jewish being unpopular in Europe in the 1930s is actually a fact. Yet, the task of the philosopher is to understand the conditions that set events and historical narratives.

You say: “Those who blame the Muslims or the Islam for the Islamophibia are clearly racists. Accordingly anybody blaming The Jews for the Judeophobia is to be considered as a racist. Just the same.”

And I say. What a pathetic moron you are Mr Elam, our task is to understand the conditions that lead towards Islamophopbia. Once we understand these conditions we may realise why you, yourself MR ELAM STOOD AGAINST THE HAMAS once it was democratically elected. Before you call Mary, myself or anyone a racist just look in the mirror and analyse the islamophobe inside you, you pathetic joker.
Gilad Atzmon | Homepage | 11.03.07 – 1:04 am | #
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What “conditions that lead towards Islamophopbia”. My guess would be something to do with people that blow themselves up in public places, hijack and crash planes into buildings my be good place to start looking. But that’s me. I used to live in Northampton. Never liked it much. So many nicer places in England.
joke | 11.03.07 – 7:25 am | #
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Just for the record, I am definitely not Gilad Atzmon, no matter how many times greenslime, harry t, mark elf et accuse me of being Gilad.

He is in the UK, I am in S.America. A simple check on IP addresses will show this.
knuckles | 11.03.07 – 12:48 pm | #
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Gilad Atzmon saying: And I say. What a pathetic moron you are Mr Elam,
our task is to understand the conditions that lead towards
Islamophopbia. Once we understand these conditions we may realise
why you, yourself MR ELAM STOOD AGAINST THE HAMAS once it was
democratically elected

You should first try to understand the conditions that lead you
towards Judeophobia.
Anyhow these conditions are in the realm of
psychiatry and should be left for the experts to analyse. Instead
you should try to understand the conditions that lead to Islamofacism.
These are more easily discern and anaylse, even by a layman like you.
Read, for example, the Islamic holy books.
Incidentally, your favorite spiritual mentor, Hitler, was
democratically elected too. So did many dictators.
Mafish Falastin | 11.03.07 – 1:05 pm | #
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Shraga

The Jews in Germany were despised for exactly the same reason that you are despised – because they acted as Jews whilst pretending not to – just as you do. It’s as simple as that.

Paul
Paul Eisen | 11.03.07 – 6:04 pm | #
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Racist knuckles: He is in the UK, I am in S.America. A simple check on IP addresses will show this.

Of course you are Gilad Atzmon. It is very easily discerned.

But let us accept your challenge and have a simple check on the IP addresses. If you know what is an IP Address, you probably know what is a proxy server. But I know more. Please, tell your ugly henchman to publish here the supposedly S. American IP Address or post it yourself and I’ll prove that your address is not original but formed by a proxy server.

Ugly woman,
Please, publish my post, otherwise I’ll have to post it in the web site of your enemies, and thus proving who is knuckles.

Israelite | 11.04.07 – 2:39 am | #
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Shraga wrote: Of course everybody paying taxes in Israel has a responsibility for the crimes committed by this state, but this includes also Palestinian citizens of this state like Omar Barghouth and Khaled Amayreh,
People like Atzmon and yourself with you racist prejudices are not endangering Jews but are harming the Palestinian struggle for freedom, i.e. against oppression and racism.

Mary: I’m glad you realise Gilad and I are not endagering Jews. If you thought so, I’d have suggested you seek professional help. Yet, very worryingly, Shraga, I find it really incredible that someone like you who apparently knows under what condition a Palestinian who lives in Hebron is forced to “pay taxes to Israel” while not being recognised the same rights in any way. Why should anyone in the West Bank, who is surrounded by settlers feel an iota of responsibility for the atrocities Israel commits? This is absurd and I would even go so far as to say it is obscene to say such a thing. (Khalid lives in Hebron and also Omar lives in the West Bank). But let’s for instance take someone (anyone) who is a Palestinian living in Haifa or in one of the “development towns”. Are you claiming that they too are responsible for Israeli crimes? More responsible than, say, an American who pays taxes and vote for people who actually state that great amounts of funds go into Israeli Defence? I just wonder about your idea of responsibility. If someone is being occupied, or if his home is in a place that then became a different geopolitical reality, he is STILL responsible for the crimes that the taxes he is forced to pay are financing? At any rate, on Alef, Tony told me I’d be welcome to promote Israeli films, depending on content, yet my Palestinian friends (even within Israel) suggested I boycott. I leave to you to judge who is more responsible for the failure of a boycott.

Let’s talk about my “racist prejudices”, and as Gilad has mentioned, the way you have twisted it around now to be about “Islamophobia”. What are my racist prejudices, and provide evidence of this claim, otherwise you must realise that you have very little credibility, when you are calling people names without any evidence. You only have 780 insertions here to choose from, hundreds of posts on Alef or anywhere else you might want to look, such as One State, JPUK, Al-Awda or any other board I’ve ever been part of or anywhere I’ve ever commented, including any articles I have written that have not been published here, because they were too off topic from the Blog theme, but have been on other sites. Please, do check wherever you can to find something, because I can assure you, you simply won’t.
continues below:
thecutter | Homepage | 11.04.07 – 4:47 pm | #
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WHEREAS, it is quite simple to find your own discriminatory bias with racial, religious or ethnic basis. Against Islam, as a matter of fact,
here you say:
“Basically blaming the subjects or victims of racist prejudices for the prejudices and the ensuing persecutions is part of the racist attitude. Those who blame the Muslims or the Islam for the Islamophibia are clearly racists…”
In fact, you write (http://www.dissidentvoice.org/Feb06/Elam02.htm)
“Facing an impossible situation”, stresses Elam, “Hamas can still correct its mistake of participating in the election by dissolving the Palestinian Authority (PA) and ending the farce introduced by the Oslo Accord”.
Mary: MISTAKE in going a democratic route? What are they supposed to do, dream forevermore? Are outsiders supposed to say which party has consensus and should participate as an expression of that consensus? It is a bogus argument!!

and: “Dissolving the PA must be accompanied by a serious search for new methods of effective non-violent struggle against the occupation, and deepening cooperation with the Israeli peace movements”.
Mary: Erm, wasn’t participating in election an acceptable method for non-violent struggle? What Israeli peace movements? The ones that treat them like handicapped individuals who are not mature or developed enough to make choices of their own? They have to behave LIKE ISRAELIS in order to be acceptable in their struggle? No dice.

and: “This is the time to create ANC-like common movements that will address issues like racism or oppression. Like the people of South Africa, it has to be realized that a separatist nationalism means catastrophe and therefore has to be abandoned.”
(Gilad’s comments on it are here: http://peacepalestine.blogspot.c…h-secular.html) But, my thoughts are: it is clear that Shraga wants to 1) disqualify the Palestinian choice. Why? Good question! Is it because the winning party is Islamic in its inspiration? If it is, isn’t that Islamaphobic a priori? At any rate, if one cares and respects Palestinians, they should then do all they can to see that the mandate given by the Palestinians for their own governance is RESPECTED!! I have just demonstrated the anti-Islamic bias that leads to racist vilification that Shraga is on record as endorsing. I think we need no more evidence, although I know there is more!!! 2) Does he not realise what the oppression and racism against the Palestinians is? It is NOT only occupation, although that is the worst part of it. Asking the Palestinians to play nice, let others dilute their resistance struggle and their nationalism is DENIAL OF PALESTINIANS. A lack of understanding of what their struggle and identity is. He seems to not have a clue about what matters to Palestinian people.
thecutter | Homepage | 11.04.07 – 4:47 pm | #
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The comment I left on the Indymedia moderators’ list, for information, putting it here too.
Dear FTP and the rest of you

I would prefer to spare myself from debating Mr Greenstein, I have done it in the past and do not see a point in doing it anymore.

However, Yossarian’s reading of my materials is far more concerning and I would like to address it briefly.

Yossarian refers to a paper of mine (“Protocols of the Elders of Zion (Verse 2)” which he finds “disturbing”.

I am indeed critical of any form of Jewish politics (left, right and centre). The reason is rather simple: I am opposing any form of identity politics grounded on racial belonging. I oppose someone who calls himself a Jewish Marxist as much as I would oppose another who defines himself an Aryan socialist (Nazi). I will make it clear that I have no problem whatsoever with a Marxist who happens to be a Jew. I have no problem as well with Torah Jews, with those Jews who interpret the Judaic call as an ethical endeavor.

Yossarian probably fails to realise that in my writings I differentiate between Judaism (religion), Jews (the people) and Jewishness
(ideology). I have no problem with Judaism and Jews, yet I have some major difficulty with Jewishness, the ideology that is based on some
different forms of racial supremacy (Chosenness). It may as well be crucial to remind you all that in my entire body of work there is not a single reference to Jews as a racial entity. I am solely concerned with Jewishnes. I am scrutinising Jewish identity and Jewish political identity in particular. The issue of race is simply ‘non existent’ in my writings!!!

Yossarian refers to me saying:

“his arguments that there is a Zionist plan to dominate the world do seem to me to be disturbing.”

I agree with you Yossarian, it is indeed very very disturbing, but I believe that your job is to expose it rather than to silence it. More to the point, the work of the Israeli lobby in America is now out in the open thanks to some
major American academics such as James Petras, John Mearsheimer and Stephen Walt. The book about the Israeli Lobby was recently circulated in the NY Times. It is slightly embarrassing that Yossarian of UK Indy Media is just slightly behind a major conservative American paper on the topic.

Devastated Yossarian is quoting me saying:

I) “Zionism is a very singular political method aimed at perfecting the transformation of world disasters and human pain into Jewish gain,(GA)”

Gilad: Dear Yossarian, why don’t you go and learn the subject first? You may want to start with Herzl and the notion of political Zionism. In case you get lost I can always provide you with the right texts. You can probably continue with Lenni Brenner, Zionism in the Age of Dictators. Though Brenner is far from being a professional historian, he is a fabulous archivist.
Gilad Atzmon | Homepage | 11.04.07 – 7:12 pm | #
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here is the rest:

Though Brenner is far from being a professional historian, he is a fabulous archivist. You can learn from him how Zionists capitalised on the Holocaust.

In case you do not want to go that far back I can provide you all with the AJC (American Jewish Committee) recent promotion pack for ‘a war against Iran’

Would it be enough to establish a case?

Devastated Yossarian quotes me saying:

II) “Zionist lobbies have managed to comprehensively dominate the major sources that control American public opinion: both in culture, in media and in finance (GA)”

Gilad : I suggest to you, Yossarian, to read the following link.
http://www.lrb.co.uk/v28/n06/mea…06/ mear01_.html

I really start to wonder whether you live on the same planet the rest of us do.

Yossarian is quoting me saying:

III) “America is about to lose its sovereignty…After so many years of
Independence, the United States of America is becoming a remote colony of an apparently far greater state, the Jewish state.”

Gilad: Indeed, becoming an Israeli mission force fighting some idiotic neocon wars against Iraq, Syria and Iran serves Israeli interest only. Unless you, Yossarian, can suggest otherwise.

Yossarian says:

“I am happy enough for people to analyze the institutional role of AIPAC and other lobby groups when it comes to US foreign policy formation, in fact I think that’s quite a legitimate thing to do. However, he skips over that part completely – he doesn’t do much intellectual heavy lifting, he just takes it as a given that “Zionists” control the media, US foreign policy, culture, and finance, and that they want to take over the world. No evidence is cited for any of this, it’s just all stated as fact.”

Gilad: why don’t you now tell us Mr Yossarian where AIPAC stops and where Zionism starts. Please enlighten me and the rest of the world about the subject because as far as we can see, AIPAC is nothing but a manifestation of the Zionist infrastructure. You just fail to understand that: AIPAC, ADL, ZIONISM, BUND, JEWS FOR PEACE AND JEWS AGAINST PEACE, JEWS FOR THAT AND JEWS AGAINST SOMETHING ELSE are all different formations of some Judeo centric racially orientated tribal political identities. They all serve a similar cause, and this cause is ‘the Jewish people’. Though they have different plans for the Jewish people and the rest of the world, they all separate between Jews and Humanity. And I think that this is very wrong!!! I may as well suggest to you, Yossarian that if you do not think that this is very wrong, it is actually me who doesn’t want to be on your site!

I suggest to you, Yossarian and others that you spend some time learning about the subject because at the moment you just spread some old liberal clichés that prove some severe lack of understanding of the entire issue and its complexity.
Gilad Atzmon | Homepage | 11.04.07 – 7:14 pm | #
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the rest again:

Referring to the Q whether to remove my piece or to leave it on. As you probably realize, this very piece was translated into 7 languages, it appeared on almost every left magazine around the world and probably every Palestinian one. It was circulated to millions of people, If you remove it due to the pressure of this sad Tony Greenstein, a man who was recently humiliated at the PSC AGM for trying to silence others, it will reflect badly on you rather than me.

Please go ahead.

All the very best
Gilad Atzmon
Gilad Atzmon | Homepage | 11.04.07 – 7:18 pm | #
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Mary: I tell you they are different, and take it or leave it.

They are not. I can do that very easily, and your refusal to display the IP Address is quite telling.

But, I will say something else, the obsession you have about it puts your argumentation on the same precise plane as Atzmon. How does that suit you. I know, it’s fine with you.

Israelite | 11.04.07 – 8:43 pm | #
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The bastard who STILL porn spams me and still uses other people’s names to do it, insists I put up other people’s IPs! Forget it Israelite.
thecutter | Homepage | 11.04.07 – 8:55 pm | #
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German Christians did not hate Jews for their religion – but for their leaders’ treason activities during and after WW I, their hold on German economy and their involvement in other immoral activities – from porn to drugs. Now the Zionist Jews are repeating the same in the US and European countries.

German history (not written by Zionists) tell us that German Jews actively particpated in Nazi crimes and later killed and raped over 1.7 million German christian after the D-Day. After the break-up of Germany, the Zionist Jews sucked US$80 billion from West Germany for the ‘holocaust’ – while giving between US$7,500-17,500 to the so-called 18,000 ‘holocaust survivors’ and the rest putting in IOF hands to kill more Palestinian youth.

Recently, the thugs were made over German foreign minister’s statement – calling for a negotiated solution rather a military attack against Islamic Iran.

made a slight edit. Shaukat, you will understand. It does not in any way alter the content.

Edited By Siteowner

Edited By Siteowner
Shaukat | 11.05.07 – 4:34 pm | #
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And note: it is the Jewish leadership which is responsible. The crime of Jews in general is that when it comes to the crunch, they put tribal loyalty above loyalty to the wider community.
Paul Eisen | 11.05.07 – 5:52 pm | #
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Paul I suggest you listen to the following link

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/progr…ive/ 6221546.stm

It is about young American Arabs serving in the US army in Iraq

I listened to it and found myself wondering

Would an American Jew fight Israel?

I do not know the answer but I somehow suspect it….
Gilad atzmon | 11.06.07 – 1:53 am | #
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http://www.indymedia.org.uk/en/2…l? c=on#comments

knuckles is not atzmon
03.11.2007 11:32

It has come to my attention that Tony Greenslime has been working overtime to try and get Gilad’s article banned on Indymedia, on the basis of comments made by me, whom Greasy is accusing of being Gilad.

Just for the record, I am not Gilad Atzmon. My IP address is located in South America, while Gilad is in the UK. The Indy web admin can easily check this.

For more info about the gatekeeping activities of this credit card fraudster Greenslime, go to Censorship and “Hiding” Texts: Big and Little Gatekeepers of the World UNITE! at http://peacepalestine.blogspot.com/
knuckles | 11.06.07 – 10:11 am | #
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Would an American Jew fight Israel?
I do not know the answer but I somehow suspect it….
Gilad atzmon

Point taken

Paul
Paul Eisen | 11.06.07 – 6:55 pm | #

November 12, 2007 at 11:13 am Leave a comment

News of more hunters of Atzmon

On Thursday 1/11/07 I decided that I would alert Atzmon to the list discussion – Greenstein had made his points, I felt that it was in the interests of fairness that Atzmon should have an opportunity to make his. I mailed the email address on his site. Mary Rizzo, who saw Greenstein’s comment under the article, then posted this post to her PeacePalestine blog. Note the introduction of Shraga Elam and Elf (who later claims that he is not involved). How many lies have these intrepid hunters told? How can they expect to be taken seriously ever when the lies start being exposed? – ftp

Friday, November 2, 2007

Censorship and “Hiding” Texts: Big and Little Gatekeepers of the World UNITE!”

Anyone who follows this board is aware that there is an ongoing conflict between Gilad Atzmon and the “UK Jewish Anti-Zionist Establishment” that the Establishment seems to cyclically feed. In today’s case, it is a more in-depth analysis of the Saying NO to the Hunters of Goliath article by Gilad Atzmon. In its English version, it was printed in hundreds of site, blogs and forums, amongst them, the most popular left-alternative ones of the entire web and many Palestinian and Middle Eastern sites: Google Results 1 – 10 of about 950 for (0.49 seconds). In French: Results 1 – 10 of about 1,160 for Dire NON aux chasseurs de Goliath Gilad Atzmon. In Spanish: Results 1 – 10 of about 40 for Gilad + Atzmon Debemos decir “NO” a los cazadores de Goliat, (at the risk of becoming redundant, it was also translated and widely circulated in Italian and Romanian) an article, needless to say, that appeared 13 AUGUST.

Then, over a week ago, it got resurrected, which is never a bad thing, by a post that was sent to Indymedia, where Tony Greenstein practically demands that the article be taken off! Actually, I might have suspected something was going on, from a weird addendum to an email correspondence I received resulting from a query I addressed to a list I am on. It is a group of people (Tony is on the list as well) with a high incidence of Hebrew-speaking people who could have helped me to document an article that was mentioned to me that was available only in the Hebrew version of Haaretz. I got a reply from Shraga Elam, who -out of the blue- decided to question me on quotes from this (to me) old paper by Gilad Atzmon. Yes, something was up, but until Elf started attacking me too, I wouldn’t have noticed it. It was pretty marginal even as far as tempests in teacups go.

Well, for those who want to be up on the real scoop, on the Indymedia site, there was some discussion following Tony’s very dramatic demand, but since the post remained in place, we have one unsatisfied customer who wants justice. Wait no more. Tony decides to try another tack, and sends the complaint to the members only Indymedia list (like many lists, including JPUK, it is available for anyone to read), where a small debate about the merits of the paper takes place, but it is actually overtaken by a debate where all of Tony’s hostility to Gilad comes to the fore once again, becoming the subject of which the members are called to make a judgment upon. To Indymedia’s credit, they asked if Gilad would like to comment on the members only list, an option he unfortunately can’t take advantage of, as he is on a more restrictive touring regime right now with The Blockheads, which I am sure is similar to Zen experience.

It never does cease to amaze me, there are so many claims by the gatekeepers (how else can one call them, censors?) that Gilad Atzmon seeks publicity, but he’s never the one who starts this battle, it is always the same group of people who harp on that they want him to be “banned” from here or there, “cancelled” from here or there and in effect, SILENCED. It is going to be very difficult to do that, especially since his popularity is pretty evident judging by 3 5-second Google Searches. And, the actual containers of these papers are almost entirely radical left/progressive and Middle Eastern sites is not an incidental factor. Could we say that Greenstein and Elf and others seek publicity through Gilad, by attacking him so often? I’d say that was much more likely.

Yet, the end of the story hasn’t yet come. Within the Indymedia list, we have the germ of the entire battle, and it seems to in some way boil down to an “old” anti-Zionist establishment not tolerating the popularity of a “new” anti-Zionist. What we find here is practically evidence of plagiarism, or it comes shockingly close. Tony forwards to the list a missive by Moshe Machover . Tony says:

I have been forwarded the post below from Moshe Machover. Moshe is an absolutely solid Israeli Jewish anti-Zionist. I agree with every word. I have posted. I really think the article should be taken down.

I’ve corresponded with Dave Parks who gave me this e-mail address. He said that you usually ‘hide’ rather than erase articles but I would ask that you make an exception in this case. The article justifies the holocaust by suggesting that it was the victims of the Nazis who brought the catastrophe on themselves because of their unpopularity. This is not merely factually incorrect (Ian Kershaw’s ‘Hitler Myth’ and ‘Popular Dissent and Opinion in the Third Reich’ show this is not so in Germany) but racist.

Taking into consideration that Tony Greenstein obviously did not comprehend the article he incorrectly paraphrases. It is an article that, while being provocative, (how one or two of the posters noted), is an analysis of Identity Politics, which is precisely the area that Gilad focuses on much of the time, and a topic of great general interest. The article has been on this blog for months, so discussing it in a post is not my intention. I, however find it quite clear that in the article Gilad does not “justify” the Holocaust in any way, but explains an idea that there has been a very great difficulty throughout history for Jewish people to perceive how others saw them, because they themselves did not look into themselves. This claim can be made of any group, and I’d go so far as to say that the Americans are living a similar phase, but the point is, at the end of this lack of self-observation, we find millions of Arabs who are victims of Zionist and imperialist crimes. Why does the particularity of the Jew vs the Other count? Because more than often, many who identify themselves as Jewish do not have a very universalistic interpretation of who the Other is, and this is built into the actual structure of Jewishness (which is elements of religion, culture and myth, and by no means genetic). The Other is somehow lesser, and when things are going well, we can say that the other can be tolerated. As I said, the American Century has the same paradigm running through it, and the Americans should look into the mirror while there still is some time.

The “supremacist” is always ready to dictate who is to be silenced, who is to be vilified, who is “useless”. Hitler did it with the Jews, and the self-proclaimed Jewish anti-Zionists are saying Gilad should be deleted from sites and cancelled from venues, that he is an anti-Semite and that he is “useless to the Palestinians” because he is making arguments that make Jews uncomfortable, and this, inevitably, is the worst possible news for Palestinians. Nevermind that he is raking in funds for them constantly, and that he is greatly esteemed by many Palestinians as well as some very important writers and activists for Palestinian liberation such as Kathleen Christison, Khalid Amayreh, Santiago Alba Rico, Ramzy Baroud, Omar Barghouti and many many more. I know this, as I often send out his papers from my blog, and so many times receive the most praise-filled letters one can imagine regarding Gilad from these people and many others who could never be considered as Zionists, fifth-columnists in the Anti-Zionist movement, or even anything less than people of unmistakable integrity.

Yet, as I said, I don’t want to debate the paper here, or even Gilad Atzmon’s merits, as there are spaces for that right on this blog as well as in hundreds of other venues. What I want to do is to point out the mechanism of Gatekeeping and some particular thing I noticed: Tony accuses a certain poster on the Indy board of being Atzmon. It is a claim that is false, as the owner of the board merely has to check with the IP number to see that the post does not even come from the same continent, as claimed by the poster, and in the moments that the posts were composed. According to that poster and from my own knowledge, Gilad was somewhere in the north of England travelling, doing sound checks and playing on stage, which basically impedes him from posting on Indymedia or other forums unless he is Mandrake!

What makes things more odd is the fact that Tony is basically posting as a proxy for Moshe Machover! It is clear in the letter, which then becomes “his own post” that he is copying what Machover writes. Oh, he might agree with him, but the question begs, “why is Tony allowing himself to be the voice of Moshe Machover?” But that’s not a real problem. Machover is probably a very busy man, and he doesn’t seem to have the resilience and determination to bring Gilad to the carpet. I have to wonder, actually, why didn’t Machover make a complaint on his own? Is it because he knows that Tony has a very severe, unresolved conflict with Gilad, where he has yet to get his satisfaction, and Tony would be very game to go into a new round of censorship, or, lacking that going for “Hiding” Atzmon! Could Machover perhaps still be sitting on the fence where Atzmon is concerned? It is indeed a bit strange that someone who once had a dignified history of activism, is working all of these low-level (yes, I admit, dealing with censorship is a very low-level activity, rather than debate, we are still deciding who gets the floor), intricate games that reek of gatekeeping. Why doesn’t he speak in his own name? It’s clear that Gilad Atzmon is a very popular writer internationally and that it’s probably going to be easier to try to isolate him from the areas of influence where Machover has some credibility, he is of course, “an absolutely solid Israeli Jewish anti-Zionist”, than to seriously debate someone without censorship and with integrity.

Until the next round, my friends!

November 12, 2007 at 5:03 am 2 comments


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