Forwarding the Elf emails to the CCs

November 19, 2007 at 11:14 am 1 comment

Here I make a mistake, and quote the same email twice. Email in its entirety in comments – ftp

Date: Sat, 10 Nov 2007 08:55:33 +0000
From: freethepeeps@aktivix.org
To: freethepeeps@aktivix.org
Cc: roland@rantam.net, ‘Moshe Machover’ moshe.machover@kcl.ac., ‘deborah maccoby’ deborahmaccoby@hotmail.com, ‘charlie pottins’ <charlespottins@aol.com, ‘Diana Neslen’ d.neslen@dsl.pipex.com, ‘David Rosenberg’ davros58@yahoo.co.uk, ‘MARK ELF’ markelf@btinternet.com, ‘Michael Karlmanovitch’ michael@paydaynet.org, ‘sofia mcleoad’;sofiahmacleod@blueyonder.co.uk, Steve Cohen raysteve@cohen70.freeserve.co.uk, ‘tony greenstein’ tonygreenstein@yahoo.com
Subject: “Personal abuse is entirely Atzmon’s forte.”

Two more from Mark – I reckon that’s one Greenstein thesis thats been
disproved.
He was quick with the abuse – I’ll publish where and when I like. I don’t jump
when told.

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Entry filed under: freethepeeps, Jews Against Zionism, Mark Elf, Moshe Machover, Roland Rance, Tony Greenstein.

2 more from Elf Steve Cohen on the Indymedia list

1 Comment Add your own

  • 1. freethepeeps  |  November 19, 2007 at 11:15 am

    Complete email:

    Date: Sat, 10 Nov 2007 08:55:33 +0000
    From: freethepeeps@aktivix.org
    To: freethepeeps@aktivix.org
    Cc: roland@rantam.net, ‘Moshe Machover’ , ‘deborah maccoby’ , ‘charlie pottins’ , ‘Diana Neslen’ , ‘David Rosenberg’ , ‘MARK ELF’ , ‘Michael Karlmanovitch’ , ‘sofia mcleoad’ , Steve Cohen , ‘tony greenstein’
    Subject: “Personal abuse is entirely Atzmon’s forte.”

    Two more from Mark – I reckon that’s one Greenstein thesis thats been
    disproved.
    He was quick with the abuse – I’ll publish where and when I like. I don’t jump
    when told.

    The first one:

    “”FTP”

    my reply was to you only. Look at the last line.

    I’m not seeking a reply from a useless piece of shit [that’s you by the way,
    “ftp”] but just in case you do reply, keep it “off list” you big bully.

    Now, that last line should have made it clear that I am not “working as a group”
    with the people who were cc’d by Tony. It made it equally clear that I had not
    forgotten to copy anyone else in because I wanted to keep the content of my
    email to you, between you and me. The working together bit is just a figment
    of your racist imagination that seems to have worked overtime to ignore the
    last line of my email whilst focusing on the rest of it.

    You had no right to copy my email on to others. I only publish people’s emails
    to me if the sender/s subsequently lie about their content.

    If you published my email on a site, please remove as soon as possible as it was
    clearly private.

    Thank you

    Now leave me alone.”

    The second one:

    “Quoting MARK ELF :

    > “FTP”
    >
    > my reply was to you only. Look at the last line.
    >
    > I’m not seeking a reply from a useless piece of shit [that’s you by the way,
    > “ftp”] but just in case you do reply, keep it “off list” you big bully.
    >
    > Now, that last line should have made it clear that I am not “working as a
    > group” with the people who were cc’d by Tony. It made it equally clear that
    > I had not forgotten to copy anyone else in because I wanted to keep the
    > content of my email to you, between you and me. The working together bit is
    > just a figment of your racist imagination that seems to have worked overtime
    > to ignore the last line of my email whilst focusing on the rest of it.
    >
    > You had no right to copy my email on to others. I only publish people’s
    > emails to me if the sender/s subsequently lie about their content.
    >
    > If you published my email on a site, please remove as soon as possible as it
    > was clearly private.
    >
    > Thank you
    >
    > Now leave me alone.”

    Quoting freethepeeps@aktivix.org:

    > Keep them coming – here’s Mark Elf’s abuse as he forgot to CC you guys in:
    >
    > You “presume from the cc’s on Tony’s email that you are working
    > together as a group on this one.” Are you fucking mad? When you are cc’d
    > into
    > an email promoting viagra or penis enlargement, do you presume that you are
    > working as a group with the sender?
    >
    > You useless piece of shit. And you complain of bullying tactics whilst
    > betraying
    > a woeful ignorance of racism.
    >
    > What a wanker you are, whoever you are, ftp.
    >
    > FTP is a loyalist slogan by the way. It stands for Fuck the Provos. Since
    > you
    > host sectarianism (at best) you might think it a happy coincidence.
    >
    > You useless wanker, honestly. I can’t believe what you claim to believe. I
    > was
    > going to copy all the other cc’s on this list but, since there are some on
    > the
    > list I don’t know, it wouldn’t be right. It would look like bullying, you
    > wanker! Sorry to be repetitive but there’s nothing worse than an idiot who
    > thinks they’re clever.
    >
    > What a fuckwit. I’m trying to get my head around this. I blog but I don’t
    > do
    > much surfing. You run or speak for a site that claims to want to “free the
    > people.” I take that to mean all people. You host an article by Gilad
    > Atzmon
    > that states that Israel should have learned from what it was that made Jews
    > unpopular enough to get millions of Jews killed by the nazis. Atzmon’s
    > beef
    > used to be that non-religious people who identify as Jews are zionists since
    > they are asserting, not an identity but, supremacy. But now apparently
    > whatever it was that Israelis have to learn was what it was that made Jews
    > unpopular enough for even those Jews who had converted to Christianity or
    > other
    > religions or who never claimed that they were Jewish, to be killed. So
    > there
    > you have a Christian sitting in church with his or her yellow star.
    > Suddenly
    > they are yanked out of the church by the gestapo and marched off to a
    > concentration camp. They did something to make themselves unpopular?
    > And the colonial settler State of Israel should learn something from that?
    >
    > Maybe the last of the colonial settler states has learned that it’s a jolly
    > good
    > idea to have people like Atzmon compare it to the Jews who perished in the
    > holocaust no matter what they did, no matter how they behaved, no matter
    > what
    > they claimed to be, because then they can say that anti-zionism is
    > antisemitism.
    >
    > But then all that (not so) subtlety is going to be lost on a wanker who
    > believes
    > that people cc’d into an email must be working as a group with the sender.
    >
    > There are two more specifics in your email that I would like to address
    > since
    > you have written to me out of the blue to complain of my bullying tactics.
    >
    > You have pasted a copy of an email from a Steve Cohen. Cohen, you might
    > know,
    > is a Jewish surname. Not all people with that surname are Jews but it’s a
    > safe
    > bet usually that someone with that name is Jewish. That does not mean that
    > other Jews are responsible for the email he sent nor are people who are cc’d
    > by
    > someone that also has a Jewish surname.
    >
    > You quote Deborah Maccoby too. Another Jewish surname. You suggest that
    > Tony
    > Greenstein and all of those he cc’d are responsible for her email and are
    > responsible for any hypocritical departure from what she said regarding
    > “silencing” or not. Individuals who are Jews can still write as
    > individuals.
    >
    > I have to say that you are not only defending this “free the people” site’s
    > duty
    > to post antisemitic (arguably, you say) articles but you have given vent to
    > it
    > on your own account, at least twice in yoru ludicrous email.
    >
    > I’m not seeking a reply from a useless piece of shit but just in case you do
    > reply, keep it “off list” you big bully.
    >
    >
    http://lists.indymedia.org/pipermail/imc-uk-features/2007-November/1110-ry.html
    >
    >
    > Quoting Roland Rance :
    >
    > > I am not working as part of any group on this; nobody has “set me onto”
    > you
    > > or Indymedia. My comments were entirely independent and unsolicted, and I
    > > resent your suggestion, with its implication of a Jewish conspiracy
    > against
    > > Indymedia.
    > >
    > > The fact is athat Gilad Atzmon is an increasingly open antisemite. He
    > > purports to explain the Palestine-Israel conflict as an outcome of a
    > “Judaic
    > > worldview”, he denounces anyone who identifies as a Jew — even explicit
    > > anti-Zionists — as “undercover Zionists”, “Zionist gatekeepers”, “Jewish
    > > tribal activists” or worse, and he has indulged in the most offensive
    > > attacks on Jews — see, for instance, his unpleasant remarks abour Michael
    > > Rosen, David Rosenbverg, Julia Bard and others on the Socialist Unity blog
    > > at http://www.socialistunity.com/?p=554
    > >
    > > Atzmon is no friend of the left. Indeed, he denies that the term has any
    > > relevance: “I argue that left and right are dated concepts”
    > > http://www.gilad.co.uk/html%20files/maryrizzo.html . He is, however, a fan
    > > of Hitler’s favourite Jew, the misogynisrtic racist Otto Weininger, “one
    > of
    > > the most influential intellectual figures in the first four decades of the
    > > 20th century” http://www.gilad.co.uk/html%20files/sexpolitics.html
    > >
    > > Indymedia is currently hosting an article that argues that the Jews in
    > > Europe brought the holocaust upon themselves. This puts you in
    > particularly
    > > nasty company. Personally, I couldn’t care less whether you or not you
    > hide
    > > Atzmon’s contributions. But, if you leave them on display — and
    > > particularly if you hide critical comments — then you cannot expect us to
    > > consider Indymedia to be part of the left.
    > >
    > > Roland Rance
    > >
    > > > —–Original Message—–
    > > > From: freethepeeps@aktivix.org [mailto:freethepeeps@aktivix.org]
    > > > Sent: 09 November 2007 22:14
    > > > To: tony greenstein
    > > > Cc: Roland Rance; Moshe Machover; deborah maccoby; charlie
    > > > pottins; Diana Neslen; David Rosenberg; MARK ELF; Michael
    > > > Karlmanovitch; sofia mcleoad
    > > > Subject: Bullying tactics
    > > >
    > > > Hi all
    > > >
    > > > This is off list. I presume from the cc’s on Tony’s email
    > > > that you are working together as a group on this one.
    > > >
    > > > This is the text of an email I received today:
    > > >
    > > > “As a hitherto supporter of Indymedia I am writing in total
    > > > support of Tony Greenstein’s attribution of anti-Semitism
    > > > Some political positions are so clear that they require no
    > > > reflection to asceratain their meaning. Nazism is one such
    > > > position. What you have published is another. To talk of
    > > > “Judaic world view” (ie attributing to all Jews the same view
    > > > – the conspiracy theory) and refering to the “unpopularity”
    > > > of Jews in Nazified Europe (a form of holocaust minimisation
    > > > which virtually coincides with denial) as well as “their
    > > > holocaust”( the holocaust was perpetrated ON Jews – and
    > > > others. The perpetrators were the Nazis)…all this is
    > > > clear,unarguable anti-Semitism. Just as “kill the Yids” is
    > > > clear,unarguable,anti-Semitism. But yet you claim a) it is
    > > > open to interpretation b) even if it were anti-Semitic you
    > > > need a “consensus” as to what to do if anything – a somewhat
    > > > unique position on fighting racism c) in the meantime you
    > > > feel quite prepared to print this junk (which incidenetally
    > > > in identifying anti-Semitism with Palestinian liberation puts
    > > > you in antagonism to all progressive Palestinian thought). Of
    > > > course you can continue to use your energy going down this
    > > > obnoxious path. Or else you can print an apology. steve cohen”
    > > >
    > > > Besides the fact that the dude could do with learning to use
    > > > paragraphs, it reminds me of the time I got deluged with
    > > > emails after Deborah Fink’s Christmas Carolling list was
    > > > published on a zionist site, with an invitation to harrass
    > > > the addressees. I received many emails asking me if I was
    > > > really a Jew, and offering the nastiest and most racist filth
    > > > imaginable.
    > > >
    > > > I thought afterwards that I should have kept them all and
    > > > published them. This time I’m keeping them and may well
    > > > choose to publish them at some stage. Then others can judge
    > > > for themselves whether it is a reasonable tactic to set
    > > > supporters onto individuals that you do not agree with.
    > > > Personally I think it stinks. It certainly seems to be
    > > > exactly the same tactic that the zionist woman used.
    > > >
    > > > So, now its a demand that all Atzmon posts are removed from
    > > > Indymedia? Thats kind of ironic, considering the fact that
    > > > Deborah Maccoby had this to say in
    > > > AMIN:
    > > >
    > > > “No doubt Atzmon will present this article as yet another
    > > > vicious “defamation”
    > > > of him by a “Jewish Gatekeeper”. He will claim I and other
    > > > practitioners of “Jewish Power” – ie the Jewish world
    > > > conspiracy – are trying to silence him and his allies.
    > > > But we’re not trying to silence them; we simply want to reply
    > > > to their attacks and defend ourselves. Our very efforts to
    > > > defend ourselves become, in their twisted and deluded
    > > > thinking, proof of our sinister “Jewish Power”. I will end
    > > > by asking readers of both articles to decide who is doing the
    > > > defaming, and I appeal to Palestinians and their supporters
    > > > to resist this attempt to divide and undermine the
    > > > Palestinian solidarity movement from within.”
    > > >
    > > > Is this call for censorship a negation of what Deborah told
    > > > the readers of AMIN? |Is it the case that you have no desire
    > > > to debate with Atzmon, you just want to shut him up? Even
    > > > when the article in question doesn’t mention you? Are you
    > > > seeking to “divide and undermine”, or what?
    > > >
    > > > Are you supportive of the claim that we should just take your
    > > > word for it and realise that when you demand, there is no
    > > > need for reflection or to ascertain the meaning? That we’d
    > > > better jump, do what you say, and apologise? Are you
    > > > supportive of the claim that what Atzmon says is the same as
    > > > “kill the Yids”?
    > > >
    > > > I is not a happy bunny.
    > > >
    > > > ftp

    Reply

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