Gilad on Indymedia list

November 12, 2007 at 2:31 pm Leave a comment

I didn’t post this to list – it went through the normal channels

http://lists.indymedia.org/pipermail/imc-uk-features/2007-November/1103-qk.html

mary rizzo maryrizzo at hispam.com
Sat Nov 3 06:39:52 PDT 2007

(Dear Ftp, I am sending this for Gilad, since he
hasn’t got a stable internet connection. He asked
if you could kindly publish this on the list
where the discussion is going on.- Mary)

Dear FTP and the rest of you

I would prefer to spare myself from debating Mr
Greenstein, I have done it in the past and do not
see a point in doing it anymore.

However, Yossarian’s reading of my materials is
far more concerning and I would like to address it briefly.

Yossarian refers to a paper of mine (“Protocols
of the Elders of Zion (Verse 2)” which he finds “disturbing”.

I am indeed critical of any form of Jewish
politics (left, right and centre). The reason is
rather simple: I am opposing any form of identity
politics grounded on racial belonging. I oppose
someone who calls himself a Jewish Marxist as
much as I would oppose another who defines
himself an Aryan socialist (Nazi). I will make it
clear that I have no problem whatsoever with a
Marxist who happens to be a Jew. I have no
problem as well with Torah Jews, with those Jews
who interpret the Judaic call as an ethical endeavor.

Yossarian probably fails to realise that in my
writings I differentiate between Judaism
(religion), Jews (the people) and Jewishness
(ideology). I have no problem with Judaism and
Jews, yet I have some major difficulty with
Jewishness, the ideology that is based on some
different forms of racial supremacy
(Chosenness). It may as well be crucial to
remind you all that in my entire body of work
there is not a single reference to Jews as a
racial entity. I am solely concerned with
Jewishnes. I am scrutinising Jewish identity and
Jewish political identity in particular. The
issue of race is simply ‘non existent’ in my writings!!!

Yossarian refers to me saying:

“his arguments that there is a Zionist plan to
dominate the world do seem to me to be disturbing.”

I agree with you Yossarian, it is indeed very
very disturbing, but I believe that your job is
to expose it rather than to silence it. More to
the point, the work of the Israeli lobby in
America is now out in the open thanks to some
major American academics such as James Petras,
John Mearsheimer and Stephen Walt. The book about
the Israeli Lobby was recently circulated in the
NY Times. It is slightly embarrassing that
Yossarian of UK Indy Media is just slightly
behind a major conservative American paper on the topic.

Devastated Yossarian is quoting me saying:

I) “Zionism is a very singular political method
aimed at perfecting the transformation of world
disasters and human pain into Jewish gain,(GA)”

Gilad: Dear Yossarian, why don’t you go and learn
the subject first? You may want to start with
Herzl and the notion of political Zionism. In
case you get lost I can always provide you with
the right texts. You can probably continue with
Lenni Brenner, Zionism in the Age of Dictators.
Though Brenner is far from being a professional
historian, he is a fabulous archivist. You can
learn from him how Zionists capitalised on the Holocaust.

In case you do not want to go that far back I can
provide you all with the AJC (American Jewish
Committee) recent promotion pack for ‘a war against Iran’

Would it be enough to establish a case?

Devastated Yossarian quotes me saying:

II) “Zionist lobbies have managed to
comprehensively dominate the major sources that
control American public opinion: both in culture,
in media and in finance (GA)”

Gilad : I suggest to you, Yossarian, to read the
following
link.
http://www.lrb.co.uk/v28/n06/mear01_.html

I really start to wonder whether you live on the
same planet the rest of us do
.

Yossarian is quoting me saying:

III) “America is about to lose its
sovereignty…After so many years of
Independence, the United States of America is
becoming a remote colony of an apparently far
greater state, the Jewish state.”

Gilad: Indeed, becoming an Israeli mission force
fighting some idiotic neocon wars against Iraq,
Syria and Iran serves Israeli interest
only. Unless you, Yossarian, can suggest otherwise.

Yossarian says:

“I am happy enough for people to analyze the
institutional role of AIPAC and other lobby
groups when it comes to US foreign policy
formation, in fact I think that’s quite a
legitimate thing to do. However, he skips over
that part completely – he doesn’t do much
intellectual heavy lifting, he just takes it as a
given that “Zionists” control the media, US
foreign policy, culture, and finance, and that
they want to take over the world. No evidence is
cited for any of this, it’s just all stated as fact.”

Gilad: why don’t you now tell us Mr Yossarian
where AIPAC stops and where Zionism
starts. Please enlighten me and the rest of the
world about the subject because as far as we can
see, AIPAC is nothing but a manifestation of the
Zionist infrastructure. You just fail to
understand that: AIPAC, ADL, ZIONISM, BUND, JEWS
FOR PEACE AND JEWS AGAINST PEACE, JEWS FOR THAT
AND JEWS AGAINST SOMETHING ELSE are all
different formations of some Judeo centric
racially orientated tribal political identities.
They all serve a similar cause, and this cause
is ‘the Jewish people’. Though they have
different plans for the Jewish people and the
rest of the world, they all separate between Jews
and Humanity. And I think that this is very
wrong!!! I may as well suggest to you, Yossarian
that if you do not think that this is very wrong,
it is actually me who doesn’t want to be on your site!

I suggest to you, Yossarian and others that you
spend some time learning about the subject
because at the moment you just spread some old
liberal clichés that prove some severe lack of
understanding of the entire issue and its complexity.

Referring to the Q whether to remove my piece or
to leave it on. As you probably realize, this
very piece was translated into 7 languages, it
appeared on almost every left magazine around the
world and probably every Palestinian one. It was
circulated to millions of people, If you remove
it due to the pressure of this sad Tony
Greenstein, a man who was recently humiliated at
the PSC AGM for trying to silence others, it will
reflect badly on you rather than me.

Please go ahead.

All the very best
Gilad Atzmon

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Entry filed under: Gilad Atzmon, Indymedia, Mary Rizzo/PP, yossarian.

Yoss’s response The Lobby question

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