Comments from 1st Peace Palestine post

November 12, 2007 at 11:13 am Leave a comment

Comments:

I am in Northampton tonight, apparently I have a weak wifi access at the venue. I will make it very easy for you. Machover doesn’t confront me because Machover is a pathetic coward who has become very very unpopular along the years. As simple as that. Even within the legendary Mazpen, Machover was left alone. Aki Orr, his intellectual / ideological partner told me a year ago that he hasn’t spoken to Machover for 20 years.

Seemingly, Machover’s influence within the left is now down to 2-3 British Jews and another one in Switzerland. Apparently Machover’s followers within the ‘left’ (Greenstein & Rance) were themselves humiliated at the PSC AGM less than a year ago. We are indeed dealing here with a small bunch of very despised human beings. It isn’t that surprising that they stick to each other.

Seemingly, Machover uses Greenstein because Machover is just afraid to confront me alone. Machover remembers that his last assault against me led the SWP leadership to expose him as a compulsive liar, and the evidence is in the link you put in. At the time the SWP forwarded Machover’s email to us, clearly they had very little respect for the decaying Marxist elder. However, to be honest, I feel sorry for the old man. I used to socialise with him and his family a while back. I honestly believe that if the man had just a bit more dignity in his disposal he would probably avoid using a petty criminal Greenstein as his messenger to the world…
Gilad Atzmon | Homepage | 11.02.07 – 10:16 pm | #
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Since PePa likes complete coverage, here is a copy of the email I’d sent to the person in Indymedia who had invited Gilad to enter into the discussion.

Hi Ftp,
Gilad spoke with me a few hours ago, and as he is at the moment really unable to reply, since was leaving for a leg of the Blockheads tour, and has almost no access to internet, he asked if I’d send you a quick note regarding the debate underway at Indymedia.

He really appreciates you allowing him the opportunity to discuss the issue within the forum, and in fact, that was a very decent thing to do.

Regarding the actual debate, Gilad hadn’t had time to read it, but I summed it up a bit for him, and the matter at hand has been understood very well by yourself. It seems to be an ongoing fight that Tony Greenstein is determined to wage against Gilad Atzmon in a 360° manner. There is rarely an opportunity he misses to attempt to have Gilad taken out of discourse and isolated from anyone who might like to read his content and come to their own conclusions. In fact, it seems that on the board, some are coming to conclusions, and part of that is: yes, there are elements that might offend or be provocative, but there is no hatespeech or even evidence of racial hatred. It is far too easy to take segments out of context of papers and to twist them into something they never were. We are all running on internet time, and if someone can digest it all for us and then do us the favour of passing judgment and deciding if something is acceptable or not, they have saved us precious time. Tony believes he’s doing a public service, but actually, he really only convinces an extreme minority of people, and come to think of it, they were people who felt themselves to be the targets of one of Gilad’s more effective pieces, the Protocols of the Elders of London where…. oh my…. the topic is attempts of a small group of Jewish activists to get people pulled from sites, discussion lists, speaking venues. There is a level of constant vilification of not so much a “viewpoint” but of a person, carried to extremes, and done pretty much “under the table”, but thank goodness, we are still able to see it with our own eyes and document this kind of dealing. Yes, the irony is that the paper is more valid today than it was when it was written, 3 or so years ago.

This is what Tony Greenstein fails to realise, that he is really part of his own problem. When he decides to change his tactic, perhaps Gilad will be able to put the pen down and focus on something else.

At any rate, I’ve written a text about it on my blog, if you’d like to read it, this is the link. http://peacepalestine.blogspot.c…ts-big- and.html

take care
mary (from peacepalestine blog)
thecutter | Homepage | 11.02.07 – 10:21 pm | #
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>> Google Results 1 – 10 of about 950 for (0.49 seconds).

This is a purposely misleading way to perform search in Google,
and thus fifty per cent of the result set is not related to the
article under discussion.
Here’s the appropriate way to perform the search, where the accepted
result set is about 518:
http://www.google.com/search?hl=…%22& btnG=Search

I will not continue reading this article because it is very
likely it is full of lies and fabrications.
MHoward775 | 11.02.07 – 11:03 pm | #
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Mary,
Just to put things straight. I got few weeks ago a reaction of Moshe Machover to the said Atzmon article. Moshe claimed there that Atzmon had blamed in this piece THE JEWS for the Nazi crimes. For me it wasn’t that clear and I saw another way to understand the passage. We had a discussion on this issue. At the end I decided that instead of wasting our time Atzmon can be asked to clarify the point. Atzmon wrote a while ago that I shouldn’t send him my “Jewish spam” and this was the reason that I asked you for an explanation.
I would not take your answer as representing Atzmon’s position but your own.
Basically blaming the subjects or victims of racist prejudices for the prejudices and the ensuing persecutions is part of the racist attitude. Those who blame the Muslims or the Islam for the Islamophibia are clearly racists. Accordingly anybody blaming The Jews for the Judeophobia is to be considered as a racist.
Just the same, it is possible to say that at present Zionists and pro-Zionists organizations and lobbies are triggering Judeophobia through their behaviour and crimes. They are not creating the Judeophobic attitudes which blame all Jews for crimes committed by the “Jewish” state and by its supporters (not all of the are Jews). This kind of prejudices or “openness” for prejudices must exist before the trigger/s come/s. This readiness to generalize is the mother or father of racism.
People who accuse all the Germans for ever and ever for the Nazi crimes are racists in my book. This anti-German racism is very common in Israel, among Jews and many non-Jews non-Germans.
Not even all the Nazis bore the same amount of guilt, just as not all Zionists bear the same amount of guilt. There is a clear difference e.g. between Ariel Sharon and Uri Avnery, although both of them are Zionists. Of course everybody paying taxes in Israel has a responsibility for the crimes committed by this state, but this includes also Palestinian citizens of this state like Omar Barghouth and Khaled Amayreh,
People like Atzmon and yourself with you racist prejudices are not endangering Jews but are harming the Palestinian struggle for freedom, i.e. against oppression and racism.
The Zionist experience has demonstrated very well that it is a mistake to support and develop a struggle against one sort of racism that propagates another kind of racism. An anti-racism racism is still racism.
It is not even just a question of morality but a political matter of taking into consideration the very desperate Palestinian situation which does not allow Palestinians the same “luxury” that Zionists have had, namely of developing and nursing an anti-racist racism. An anti-Amalkites racism, which was understandable under persecutions, but just the same condemable. The Palestinian Judeophobia is more dangerous for Palestinians than it is for Jews, as it gives Zionists and their followers needed pretexts to silence the necessary protests against Zionist crimes.
Shraga Elam | 11.02.07 – 11:05 pm | #
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Shraga, you call me a racist. I hope you are ready to back that up.

Also, I was wondering if you ever did get the letter from several months back where you asked me for the information on Machover’s position on certain issues, since you had asked me for clarification when I informed you that you were not completely up to date on the developments of the various situations. I sent you very long and quite detailed information, to which I also said you were more than welcome to send them to Machover, yet, you did not even bother to reply to the discussion I was having with you about it.

So, you are welcome to believe whatever you like, but you seem to have a very selective way of interacting with people, which is your right, but it is neither fair to them or accurate when you then come out with inflammatory statements that they are racists and responsible for the suffering of the Palestinians.

It might interest you to note that there is more than one way of looking at things and by painting all who critique the negative parts of the Jewish Identity, which we all deal with in one way or another, are anti-Semites or racists is indeed a very incorrect way of establishing any kind of verity. And, you may see that one of the major issues here is again, the gatekeeping one, where one person, speaking as a Jew and representing other Jews, is pushing – lobbying – sometimes in the light of day, and sometimes in a much more obscure manner, to have any voices that hold him up to scrutiny silenced. This is indeed a great and urgent problem. I am certain that neither Atzmon nor I incite any kind of hatred or anti-racist racism (whatever that means) and we are humanists to the core.
thecutter | Homepage | 11.02.07 – 11:16 pm | #
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One more thing, Shraga. If you actually read Atzmon’s articles for yourself, rather than trusting the condensed and commented version, you will see that he does not consider Jews a race. He considers a mental attitude which he defines as Jewishness, and which is represented not only in Zionists, (obviously, for in fact that would be ridiculous) but in any person Jew or Gentile, that tends to assign and accept a separateness of Jewish people that is based on being in some way Chosen. Following this attitude to its most dramatic result, we can see the crimes committed against innocent people simply because they are not chosen. There are millions around the world that accept this paradigm, and it therefore needs to be confronted openly, in order for the suffering of Palestinian people to be addressed and the offences against them allowed to be redressed.
thecutter | Homepage | 11.02.07 – 11:22 pm | #
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off topic, slightly…

Ziopedia, that at times has articles one would find anywhere, but also has its enormous share of total nutbar stuff, inserted me on their mailing list ages ago. That’s cuz I knew Andrew when he just commented on blogs. Then, hardly knowing the man, but being aware that he was bilingual, asked if he wanted to participate in Tlaxcala. He volunteered to do so, and contributed with some translations. In the meantime, he opened his site, got asked to leave Tlaxcala after one of his more lunatic campaigns, and kept my name on his mailing list. Imagine not a day goes by that I don’t get in my inbox “Send money to keep me going” and so on.

I finally registered, read his bleeding gall post where he begs for money, inflating his readership and so on, and I offered some advice: telling him to cut down on the non-necessary things, to dedicate the time he had, like the rest of us do, to insert features that are free, and if that didn’t keep him happy, to get advertising. Not only did he NOT print my post, he blocked my login! So, gatekeeping is an activity that happens whenever someone feels their dominion threatened in their sphere of influence. Winkler’s not that much different from Greenstein.
thecutter | Homepage | 11.02.07 – 11:42 pm | #
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Shraga I indeed asked you to stop spamming me with your Judeo centric spam and your pathetic “self loving” narrative. You are welcome to communicate with me addressing some essential issues, whether you are capable doing so is indeed a big question. I personally doubt it.

Down to the point:
You say: “Basically blaming the subjects or victims of racist prejudices for the prejudices and the ensuing persecutions is part of the racist attitude.”

My answer:
I didn’t blame nor did I Justify. Instead, I argue that the general unpopularity of Jews in Europe and the repetition of similar conditions in occupied Palestine isn’t really a coincidence. I do understand that you, Greenstein, Rance and Machover insist upon regarding yourselves as loveable Jews. But as it seems nobody but yourself can stand you. The SWP humiliated Machover, the PSC did the same the Greenstein and Rance, every German Pls solidarity that I happen to meet voluntarily report me how revolting Mr Elam is. Your total isolation and the fact that you all operate solely within Jewish cyber cells speak for itself.

In case you fail to know, Jewish being unpopular in Europe in the 1930s is actually a fact. Yet, the task of the philosopher is to understand the conditions that set events and historical narratives.

You say: “Those who blame the Muslims or the Islam for the Islamophibia are clearly racists. Accordingly anybody blaming The Jews for the Judeophobia is to be considered as a racist. Just the same.”

And I say. What a pathetic moron you are Mr Elam, our task is to understand the conditions that lead towards Islamophopbia. Once we understand these conditions we may realise why you, yourself MR ELAM STOOD AGAINST THE HAMAS once it was democratically elected. Before you call Mary, myself or anyone a racist just look in the mirror and analyse the islamophobe inside you, you pathetic joker.
Gilad Atzmon | Homepage | 11.03.07 – 1:04 am | #
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What “conditions that lead towards Islamophopbia”. My guess would be something to do with people that blow themselves up in public places, hijack and crash planes into buildings my be good place to start looking. But that’s me. I used to live in Northampton. Never liked it much. So many nicer places in England.
joke | 11.03.07 – 7:25 am | #
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Just for the record, I am definitely not Gilad Atzmon, no matter how many times greenslime, harry t, mark elf et accuse me of being Gilad.

He is in the UK, I am in S.America. A simple check on IP addresses will show this.
knuckles | 11.03.07 – 12:48 pm | #
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Gilad Atzmon saying: And I say. What a pathetic moron you are Mr Elam,
our task is to understand the conditions that lead towards
Islamophopbia. Once we understand these conditions we may realise
why you, yourself MR ELAM STOOD AGAINST THE HAMAS once it was
democratically elected

You should first try to understand the conditions that lead you
towards Judeophobia.
Anyhow these conditions are in the realm of
psychiatry and should be left for the experts to analyse. Instead
you should try to understand the conditions that lead to Islamofacism.
These are more easily discern and anaylse, even by a layman like you.
Read, for example, the Islamic holy books.
Incidentally, your favorite spiritual mentor, Hitler, was
democratically elected too. So did many dictators.
Mafish Falastin | 11.03.07 – 1:05 pm | #
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Shraga

The Jews in Germany were despised for exactly the same reason that you are despised – because they acted as Jews whilst pretending not to – just as you do. It’s as simple as that.

Paul
Paul Eisen | 11.03.07 – 6:04 pm | #
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Racist knuckles: He is in the UK, I am in S.America. A simple check on IP addresses will show this.

Of course you are Gilad Atzmon. It is very easily discerned.

But let us accept your challenge and have a simple check on the IP addresses. If you know what is an IP Address, you probably know what is a proxy server. But I know more. Please, tell your ugly henchman to publish here the supposedly S. American IP Address or post it yourself and I’ll prove that your address is not original but formed by a proxy server.

Ugly woman,
Please, publish my post, otherwise I’ll have to post it in the web site of your enemies, and thus proving who is knuckles.

Israelite | 11.04.07 – 2:39 am | #
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Shraga wrote: Of course everybody paying taxes in Israel has a responsibility for the crimes committed by this state, but this includes also Palestinian citizens of this state like Omar Barghouth and Khaled Amayreh,
People like Atzmon and yourself with you racist prejudices are not endangering Jews but are harming the Palestinian struggle for freedom, i.e. against oppression and racism.

Mary: I’m glad you realise Gilad and I are not endagering Jews. If you thought so, I’d have suggested you seek professional help. Yet, very worryingly, Shraga, I find it really incredible that someone like you who apparently knows under what condition a Palestinian who lives in Hebron is forced to “pay taxes to Israel” while not being recognised the same rights in any way. Why should anyone in the West Bank, who is surrounded by settlers feel an iota of responsibility for the atrocities Israel commits? This is absurd and I would even go so far as to say it is obscene to say such a thing. (Khalid lives in Hebron and also Omar lives in the West Bank). But let’s for instance take someone (anyone) who is a Palestinian living in Haifa or in one of the “development towns”. Are you claiming that they too are responsible for Israeli crimes? More responsible than, say, an American who pays taxes and vote for people who actually state that great amounts of funds go into Israeli Defence? I just wonder about your idea of responsibility. If someone is being occupied, or if his home is in a place that then became a different geopolitical reality, he is STILL responsible for the crimes that the taxes he is forced to pay are financing? At any rate, on Alef, Tony told me I’d be welcome to promote Israeli films, depending on content, yet my Palestinian friends (even within Israel) suggested I boycott. I leave to you to judge who is more responsible for the failure of a boycott.

Let’s talk about my “racist prejudices”, and as Gilad has mentioned, the way you have twisted it around now to be about “Islamophobia”. What are my racist prejudices, and provide evidence of this claim, otherwise you must realise that you have very little credibility, when you are calling people names without any evidence. You only have 780 insertions here to choose from, hundreds of posts on Alef or anywhere else you might want to look, such as One State, JPUK, Al-Awda or any other board I’ve ever been part of or anywhere I’ve ever commented, including any articles I have written that have not been published here, because they were too off topic from the Blog theme, but have been on other sites. Please, do check wherever you can to find something, because I can assure you, you simply won’t.
continues below:
thecutter | Homepage | 11.04.07 – 4:47 pm | #
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WHEREAS, it is quite simple to find your own discriminatory bias with racial, religious or ethnic basis. Against Islam, as a matter of fact,
here you say:
“Basically blaming the subjects or victims of racist prejudices for the prejudices and the ensuing persecutions is part of the racist attitude. Those who blame the Muslims or the Islam for the Islamophibia are clearly racists…”
In fact, you write (http://www.dissidentvoice.org/Feb06/Elam02.htm)
“Facing an impossible situation”, stresses Elam, “Hamas can still correct its mistake of participating in the election by dissolving the Palestinian Authority (PA) and ending the farce introduced by the Oslo Accord”.
Mary: MISTAKE in going a democratic route? What are they supposed to do, dream forevermore? Are outsiders supposed to say which party has consensus and should participate as an expression of that consensus? It is a bogus argument!!

and: “Dissolving the PA must be accompanied by a serious search for new methods of effective non-violent struggle against the occupation, and deepening cooperation with the Israeli peace movements”.
Mary: Erm, wasn’t participating in election an acceptable method for non-violent struggle? What Israeli peace movements? The ones that treat them like handicapped individuals who are not mature or developed enough to make choices of their own? They have to behave LIKE ISRAELIS in order to be acceptable in their struggle? No dice.

and: “This is the time to create ANC-like common movements that will address issues like racism or oppression. Like the people of South Africa, it has to be realized that a separatist nationalism means catastrophe and therefore has to be abandoned.”
(Gilad’s comments on it are here: http://peacepalestine.blogspot.c…h-secular.html) But, my thoughts are: it is clear that Shraga wants to 1) disqualify the Palestinian choice. Why? Good question! Is it because the winning party is Islamic in its inspiration? If it is, isn’t that Islamaphobic a priori? At any rate, if one cares and respects Palestinians, they should then do all they can to see that the mandate given by the Palestinians for their own governance is RESPECTED!! I have just demonstrated the anti-Islamic bias that leads to racist vilification that Shraga is on record as endorsing. I think we need no more evidence, although I know there is more!!! 2) Does he not realise what the oppression and racism against the Palestinians is? It is NOT only occupation, although that is the worst part of it. Asking the Palestinians to play nice, let others dilute their resistance struggle and their nationalism is DENIAL OF PALESTINIANS. A lack of understanding of what their struggle and identity is. He seems to not have a clue about what matters to Palestinian people.
thecutter | Homepage | 11.04.07 – 4:47 pm | #
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The comment I left on the Indymedia moderators’ list, for information, putting it here too.
Dear FTP and the rest of you

I would prefer to spare myself from debating Mr Greenstein, I have done it in the past and do not see a point in doing it anymore.

However, Yossarian’s reading of my materials is far more concerning and I would like to address it briefly.

Yossarian refers to a paper of mine (“Protocols of the Elders of Zion (Verse 2)” which he finds “disturbing”.

I am indeed critical of any form of Jewish politics (left, right and centre). The reason is rather simple: I am opposing any form of identity politics grounded on racial belonging. I oppose someone who calls himself a Jewish Marxist as much as I would oppose another who defines himself an Aryan socialist (Nazi). I will make it clear that I have no problem whatsoever with a Marxist who happens to be a Jew. I have no problem as well with Torah Jews, with those Jews who interpret the Judaic call as an ethical endeavor.

Yossarian probably fails to realise that in my writings I differentiate between Judaism (religion), Jews (the people) and Jewishness
(ideology). I have no problem with Judaism and Jews, yet I have some major difficulty with Jewishness, the ideology that is based on some
different forms of racial supremacy (Chosenness). It may as well be crucial to remind you all that in my entire body of work there is not a single reference to Jews as a racial entity. I am solely concerned with Jewishnes. I am scrutinising Jewish identity and Jewish political identity in particular. The issue of race is simply ‘non existent’ in my writings!!!

Yossarian refers to me saying:

“his arguments that there is a Zionist plan to dominate the world do seem to me to be disturbing.”

I agree with you Yossarian, it is indeed very very disturbing, but I believe that your job is to expose it rather than to silence it. More to the point, the work of the Israeli lobby in America is now out in the open thanks to some
major American academics such as James Petras, John Mearsheimer and Stephen Walt. The book about the Israeli Lobby was recently circulated in the NY Times. It is slightly embarrassing that Yossarian of UK Indy Media is just slightly behind a major conservative American paper on the topic.

Devastated Yossarian is quoting me saying:

I) “Zionism is a very singular political method aimed at perfecting the transformation of world disasters and human pain into Jewish gain,(GA)”

Gilad: Dear Yossarian, why don’t you go and learn the subject first? You may want to start with Herzl and the notion of political Zionism. In case you get lost I can always provide you with the right texts. You can probably continue with Lenni Brenner, Zionism in the Age of Dictators. Though Brenner is far from being a professional historian, he is a fabulous archivist.
Gilad Atzmon | Homepage | 11.04.07 – 7:12 pm | #
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here is the rest:

Though Brenner is far from being a professional historian, he is a fabulous archivist. You can learn from him how Zionists capitalised on the Holocaust.

In case you do not want to go that far back I can provide you all with the AJC (American Jewish Committee) recent promotion pack for ‘a war against Iran’

Would it be enough to establish a case?

Devastated Yossarian quotes me saying:

II) “Zionist lobbies have managed to comprehensively dominate the major sources that control American public opinion: both in culture, in media and in finance (GA)”

Gilad : I suggest to you, Yossarian, to read the following link.
http://www.lrb.co.uk/v28/n06/mea…06/ mear01_.html

I really start to wonder whether you live on the same planet the rest of us do.

Yossarian is quoting me saying:

III) “America is about to lose its sovereignty…After so many years of
Independence, the United States of America is becoming a remote colony of an apparently far greater state, the Jewish state.”

Gilad: Indeed, becoming an Israeli mission force fighting some idiotic neocon wars against Iraq, Syria and Iran serves Israeli interest only. Unless you, Yossarian, can suggest otherwise.

Yossarian says:

“I am happy enough for people to analyze the institutional role of AIPAC and other lobby groups when it comes to US foreign policy formation, in fact I think that’s quite a legitimate thing to do. However, he skips over that part completely – he doesn’t do much intellectual heavy lifting, he just takes it as a given that “Zionists” control the media, US foreign policy, culture, and finance, and that they want to take over the world. No evidence is cited for any of this, it’s just all stated as fact.”

Gilad: why don’t you now tell us Mr Yossarian where AIPAC stops and where Zionism starts. Please enlighten me and the rest of the world about the subject because as far as we can see, AIPAC is nothing but a manifestation of the Zionist infrastructure. You just fail to understand that: AIPAC, ADL, ZIONISM, BUND, JEWS FOR PEACE AND JEWS AGAINST PEACE, JEWS FOR THAT AND JEWS AGAINST SOMETHING ELSE are all different formations of some Judeo centric racially orientated tribal political identities. They all serve a similar cause, and this cause is ‘the Jewish people’. Though they have different plans for the Jewish people and the rest of the world, they all separate between Jews and Humanity. And I think that this is very wrong!!! I may as well suggest to you, Yossarian that if you do not think that this is very wrong, it is actually me who doesn’t want to be on your site!

I suggest to you, Yossarian and others that you spend some time learning about the subject because at the moment you just spread some old liberal clichés that prove some severe lack of understanding of the entire issue and its complexity.
Gilad Atzmon | Homepage | 11.04.07 – 7:14 pm | #
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the rest again:

Referring to the Q whether to remove my piece or to leave it on. As you probably realize, this very piece was translated into 7 languages, it appeared on almost every left magazine around the world and probably every Palestinian one. It was circulated to millions of people, If you remove it due to the pressure of this sad Tony Greenstein, a man who was recently humiliated at the PSC AGM for trying to silence others, it will reflect badly on you rather than me.

Please go ahead.

All the very best
Gilad Atzmon
Gilad Atzmon | Homepage | 11.04.07 – 7:18 pm | #
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Mary: I tell you they are different, and take it or leave it.

They are not. I can do that very easily, and your refusal to display the IP Address is quite telling.

But, I will say something else, the obsession you have about it puts your argumentation on the same precise plane as Atzmon. How does that suit you. I know, it’s fine with you.

Israelite | 11.04.07 – 8:43 pm | #
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The bastard who STILL porn spams me and still uses other people’s names to do it, insists I put up other people’s IPs! Forget it Israelite.
thecutter | Homepage | 11.04.07 – 8:55 pm | #
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German Christians did not hate Jews for their religion – but for their leaders’ treason activities during and after WW I, their hold on German economy and their involvement in other immoral activities – from porn to drugs. Now the Zionist Jews are repeating the same in the US and European countries.

German history (not written by Zionists) tell us that German Jews actively particpated in Nazi crimes and later killed and raped over 1.7 million German christian after the D-Day. After the break-up of Germany, the Zionist Jews sucked US$80 billion from West Germany for the ‘holocaust’ – while giving between US$7,500-17,500 to the so-called 18,000 ‘holocaust survivors’ and the rest putting in IOF hands to kill more Palestinian youth.

Recently, the thugs were made over German foreign minister’s statement – calling for a negotiated solution rather a military attack against Islamic Iran.

made a slight edit. Shaukat, you will understand. It does not in any way alter the content.

Edited By Siteowner

Edited By Siteowner
Shaukat | 11.05.07 – 4:34 pm | #
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And note: it is the Jewish leadership which is responsible. The crime of Jews in general is that when it comes to the crunch, they put tribal loyalty above loyalty to the wider community.
Paul Eisen | 11.05.07 – 5:52 pm | #
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Paul I suggest you listen to the following link

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/progr…ive/ 6221546.stm

It is about young American Arabs serving in the US army in Iraq

I listened to it and found myself wondering

Would an American Jew fight Israel?

I do not know the answer but I somehow suspect it….
Gilad atzmon | 11.06.07 – 1:53 am | #
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http://www.indymedia.org.uk/en/2…l? c=on#comments

knuckles is not atzmon
03.11.2007 11:32

It has come to my attention that Tony Greenslime has been working overtime to try and get Gilad’s article banned on Indymedia, on the basis of comments made by me, whom Greasy is accusing of being Gilad.

Just for the record, I am not Gilad Atzmon. My IP address is located in South America, while Gilad is in the UK. The Indy web admin can easily check this.

For more info about the gatekeeping activities of this credit card fraudster Greenslime, go to Censorship and “Hiding” Texts: Big and Little Gatekeepers of the World UNITE! at http://peacepalestine.blogspot.com/
knuckles | 11.06.07 – 10:11 am | #
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Would an American Jew fight Israel?
I do not know the answer but I somehow suspect it….
Gilad atzmon

Point taken

Paul
Paul Eisen | 11.06.07 – 6:55 pm | #

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